This post is not mine and I have cut-copy-pasted this from a forum. I am not sure how many of you visit www.gmatclub.com. Its a wonderful website for those aspiring for a US MBA. Good thing is there is a separate thread where all the MBA's discuss about their B School life. I find that very interesting.
These are the threads. Probably one may have to register for free to see the actual post.
http://gmatclub.com/forum/108-t58003 (source-1 of this post)
http://gmatclub.com/forum/108-t59520 (source-2 of this post)
http://gmatclub.com/forum/108-t59520 (source-3 of this post)
This post does not apply to Indian yem-bee-yays. But a good read nevertheless and it would be pretty immature to just read this as a "guide to get a job" stuff. There are a lot of things discussed which would help us in the long run.
QUOTE:
This is the first of a 20 part series on recruiting and schmoozing (just kidding, it will probably be 3-4 parts but I don't know yet). These are based on my experiences, so people with different backgrounds, different career goals and at different schools will certainly have different things to add. I attended mostly IB events so I'll try to point out areas where this guide may or may not apply to certain areas (for example, if something applies to IB recruiting, but not other job tracks), but others should definitely jump in with their own insights and experiences. The topics I'm planning to cover include recruiting strategy, etiquette at events, manners and procedures for sit-down meals, proper attire for various events (guys only, unfortunately I know nothing about what women should wear), follow-up, and various other items as they pop in my head.
Part 1 - the early days
The following advice generally applies to firms that have a regular recruiting process on your campus, and are based on experiences with IB firms. These firms generally come for an initial presentation, followed by some type of open invite event (cocktails or something) and then 1-3 invite only events. For Darden this usually culminates with our Week on Wall Street where 20-25 firms host us in their offices in NY; finally there are two rounds of interviews, generally on campus. I must stress that if a firm does not recruit on campus, or if they only visit for a general presentation and do not have follow-up events that you must use different strategies.So, at a lot of schools, recruiters will start showing up as soon as 2 or 3 weeks after you start school. For these schools, you can really understand why schools really want you to think about your career goals during the application process. You really need to be able to hit the ground running. I know that at some other schools, recruiters are allowed on campus until later or perhaps after the 1st quarter, so people at those schools should share their experiences. I didn't attend any conferences or anything like that, but I know that some people had success at such events.
The first thing you should do, perhaps even before deciding which school to attend, is to see which firms recruit on campus. This will be your best way to gain access to firms that you are interested in. Be sure to distinguish between firms that only post job listings (basically any firm will be willing to post jobs at any school) and those that actually invest their time, effort and dollars to recruiting on campus.
Typically, the banks start showing up first, followed by the consulting firms and then the others. The first event a particular firm holds on campus will generally be a briefing or presentation open to all students. Then main presentation is usually followed by some type of networking where you'll have the chance to speak with firm representatives. The early events will be madhouses because lots of students will be eager to start with recruiting and a lot of people don't really know what they want to focus on yet.
The best advice at this point is that you absolutely cannot win an interview invite at this point, but you might lose one. Don't be one of those people that makes a beeline for the most senior person from the firm and monopolizes their time during the event. There's just nothing positive that can come of this. You aren't going to impress them with how smart you are and how much you know, and the people that barrel to the front and try to hold off people with their sharp elbows will be annoying to the visiting firms as well as fellow students. You don't want to be that guy/gal.
Usually, the firms would introduce their people at the event and I'd pick out a few that I'd like to speak with; generally this was not the most senior member or the head of the recruiting team. There will be plenty of time to get to know these people later on, and it's just not necessary to rush things at this point. At these events, as the main presentation ended and the group broke up for networking, I'd generally like to stay back and have something to eat or drink while others crowded around the firm representatives. As things thinned out, I'd look for the people that I noted earlier, just to introduce myself and say hi. This is absolutely not the time to tell them your life story and take up a lot of their time; it's just plain annoying to everyone around. I think the best strategy is just to have a brief conversation and talk about something that might be memorable to the person you are speaking with. If that's not possible, then just understand that firms aren't making any decisions at this stage.
One piece of advice I have is to avoid traveling in packs. One of my good friends is from India, and he actually pointed this out to me; the Indian students tended to move around as large groups of 8-10 and surrounded one representative after another. This is just a terrible idea; leaving aside everything PC, it's just really tough for people to distinguish a new face from 10 other similar faces, who all happen to have similar accents and backgrounds. There's no way this is any good. Firms will also start to question whether you can adapt to other groups and cultures. This is not exclusive to any one group or culture, but I'd definitely avoid it if possible. It might feel like there is safety in numbers, but at a recruiting event it just doesn't make sense to go out of your way to make yourself blend in; try to move around and stand next to different people throughout the event. You're less likely to blend in, and you'll get to know some new fellow students.
I'd also advise against being a loner. Firms are watching; I don't mean that they're actively taking notes on you or anything like that, but over the course of many events, they will start to notice whether you get along with your fellow students. This is really important for them because they want to find out if you'll be able to adapt to a new situation and work well with others. If they start to notice that you spend a lot of your time at events off in the corner by yourself, that's not going to work out in your favor. You definitely shouldn't spend all of your efforts monopolizing the time of firm representatives at events, but move around and spend time talking with fellow students, 2Y reps that might be around, and so forth. This will be viewed favorably by the firms, and you'll also build a network with your fellow students that will help you throughout recruiting.
Something else I would recommend is to put effort into your learning team, study group, whatever it's called early on. many schools have a formalized process where students are assigned to learning teams when they get to campus. At other schools you must set up your own study group. I would highly advise putting a lot of effort into gaining the trust and support of your learning team early on, because you will need their help later. This could mean spending extra time putting together spreadsheets that the team can use, or doing extra preparation so you can lead team discussions. As recruiting picks up and you start having events 3-4 nights a week, you'll be glad you have them to lean on.
OK, so I guess that's it for Part 1. The basic advice is that it is a long process and to not be too eager early on because nothing good can come of it. I think in Part 2 we will cover dress, etiquette and manners. I'll start giving specific examples next time as well.
OK, first let's start by saying that what you wear to events does make a difference. Most of the advice in this part is standardized across most businesses, and is a 'best practices' kind of advice. Some people will have differing opinions on some of this stuff - for example I know that some people insist on wearing a black suit. I'll cover it later, but standard business attire does not include black suits; but people can apply other standards at their own risk.
My experience pertains only to men; I have no clue what is appropriate for women to wear at various events and there seems to be a lot more flexibility. I do have one suggestion though; I think women shouldn't have bare legs at business attire events. That's all I have to say about that, and it's just my opinion. The other stuff isn't my opinion; it's the rule (or at least think of it that way). My training and experience comes from two years of law firm recruiting, 2 years working at law firms on both coasts, close contact with lot's of bankers and consultants, and probably most importantly, a sorority house mother that instructed our chapter on etiquette - this was particularly important because failure meant not being invited back to the sorority house. Failure wasn't an option.
Before we get into specifics, just keep this in mind when deciding on what to wear to recruiting events: there is absolutely no reason why anyone should ever remember what you wore to a recruiting event or interview. That's rule #1 I've heard this many many times, most recently over a chuckle with a guy from a top bank. This applies on all fronts; you don't want to dress poorly, but you also don't want to be the best dressed guy in the room. You want to look a little hungry.
OK, on with the show.
SuitYour suit should be charcoal gray or navy blue. If you don't know what this means, charcoal gray would apply to the 2-3 darkest shades that you can find at a suit store and navy blue is the shade that looks black under dim lighting. It does not mean any lighter shade of gray, it definitely doesn't mean royal blue, it doesn't mean brown or olive or anything like that. If you want a pinstripe or pattern, make sure it is really subtle. Really really subtle. Let me say that again, extremely subtle. Do not get chalk stripes, or wide pinstripes, or some type of noticeable plaid pattern on your suits. Just don't. I'd recommend getting at least two suits. Keep it simple and get one charcoal and one navy, one with a pinstripe and one without.
Some people insist on wearing a black suit. Black is generally not considered business attire. GQ says no. I have heard from many different people that it makes you look like an undertaker or a G-man. Not everyone thinks this way, but please refer back up to the part where it says 'you should never be remembered for your clothes'. A lot of people won't care that you're wearing a black suit; a few people will. The few people that do remember may ding you. Yes, it's true. I have a friend who's been in consulting for about 9 years now. He dings people that wear black suits - they probably don't even know why.
Your suit should be of high quality material, and should be tailored to your size. A good quality material is wool, that's it. Don't be the guy wearing a velvet jacket (yes there was actually someone that did this a bunch of times). This doesn't mean it has to be really expensive - I've seen good discounted suits for $250. Try to avoid 'fashion' cuts, and unless your European (or in Europe) avoid those types of cuts as well. Make sure you get it tailored so that it fits properly and looks good. If it's cut and tailored properly, it should feel very good when you put it on. Your pants should be cut so they don't drag on the ground, but don't show off your socks when standing. A good tailor will take care of this for you. Don't get mohair or sharkskin (shiny types); those are for throwing down on the dance floor, they aren't for recruiting.
Unless you're close to 7 feet tall, your suit should have 2 or 3 buttons. In my opinion, the number of buttons should depend on how tall and wide you are. 3 buttons if you are tall, 2 buttons if you are short, and adjustments based on if you are lean or fat. Your suit should not have 4 or 5 buttons (unless you're extremely tall); your suit should not have 1 button (unless you're attending a black tie event because that's a tuxedo jacket).
You should never ever carry anything in the front pockets of your suit. This isn't a problem for many suits because the front pockets are not real pockets; but even if they are real pockets do not put anything in them. Speaking of pockets, if you have a huge wallet or phone, put it in the interior pocket of your jacket. Don't have a huge bulging wallet on your @ss (consider taking some stuff out).
ShirtI'm going to give you my personal advice on this subject, and it's something that has evolved over the course of the fall recruiting season. I would suggest sticking with basic white, light blue, ecru and other solid, basic colored shirts. I used to think it was OK to wear a striped shirt and the occasional French cuff, but I've come to believe that these are best avoided during recruiting. Save them until you've landed the job.
Note: there is no such thing as a short-sleeve dress shirt. OK, that's all I'm going to say about that.
Your shirt sleeve should be long so that 1/2-1 inch shows from beneath your suit. If you're getting ready to attend business school, I recommend getting measured - any decent department store or menswear store would be happy to do this for you. The neck shouldn't choke you, but if it's too loose it will look sloppy. Get measured so you can buy stuff that fits right. It will look a lot better.
Back to the colors and patterns. As recruiting wore on, it was really just a whole lot easier to stick with a solid shirt with basic colors. You can get away with wearing a striped shirt, but as I dressed up for event after event day after day, it just dawned on me, why bother? It's really not worth the effort trying to get coordinated and it's just easier to stick with basic white, blue or ecru. Frenched cuffs (with cuff links) are probably a bad idea for recruiting - they can draw attention which violates rule #1. DO NOT wear shirts with white collar and cuffs. I remember a briefing where a guy wore a royal blue shirt with white collar and Frenched cuffs; he also decided to wear some plaid pants and I'm not kidding, in a room full of peoplein dark suits he looked like a clown. Literally. People still remember it. You don't want to be that guy.
TieYou have some flexibility with the tie that you choose. I have some tips that you might find useful, but it's up to you to decide.
First,
try to avoid anything that is really shiny. For some reason, people that don't wear suits often seem to select shiny ties. Don't do that. I'd also avoid anything that is really gold or predominantly black. They just seem to reflect poorly in recruiting situations.
The other basic advice relates to how you should put it together. There are 3 key pieces to business attire (suit, shirt and tie) and there are three basic patterns (solid, stripe, circle/dot). Generally try to avoid selecting the same pattern for all three pieces. For example, don't wear a pinstripe suit, and striped shirt and a striped tie. It just looks funny. If you're wearing a solid suit and shirt, go with a slightly (and I mean slightly) more unusual tie. If you're wearing a pinstripe suit, then go with a conservative tie. After you put it together, just ask yourself, 'is this tie making me stick out'?
The final thing about ties is that your knot should be tight and tidy. For some reason, people of certain cultures like to tie really strange looking knots. There's an Italian guy I know. I have no doubt that he's got a lot more style than me, and that his clothes are really nice; but he refuses to tighten his the knot on his tie. He basically just slips it through, and that's it. It looks really really sloppy, and I notice that when talking with him, it's impossible not to stare at his tie. That's bad. Generally avoid bid ostentatious knots like full Windsors. Just go with your basic four-in-hand (I think that's what it's called) and put a dimple in the middle. You'll look classy, neat and tidy. That's exactly how you want to look.
Shoes/Socks/BeltWear lace-ups. Do not wear loafers. Again, this seems to be a cultural thing, but some groups really like to wear loose fitting loafers. I really really really advise against this. It looks really sloppy and not business-like. Certainly, there are some loafers that are tight-fitting and classy, but I've definitely seen more mistakes than hits with people that wear loafers. Unless you're a managing director or law firm partner, do not wear tassled loafers and for the love of god, don't wear shoes with buckles.
For lace-ups, avoid fancy patterns like wingtips. Go with a plain toe, capped toe or perhaps split toe. Make sure the leather is high quality and shines up nicely. Make sure your shoes are shined and polished regularly; it really does make a difference. Your shoes should be black. Let's just leave it at that. You can wear whatever you want once you have the job, but for the purposes of recruiting and interviewing, just wear black shoes.
Your socks should be black. Really black. In fact, if your socks are faded from washing, get some new black socks. They should go far enough up your calves so that when you sit down and your pants ride up a little, you do not bear any skin. Black, long, that's it. No more talk about socks.
Your belt should be black. It should have a plain silver or gold buckle. By plain I mean really basic. Your belt should fit pretty snuggly; you definitely don't want something that flops or shifts around. OK, that's all there is to know about belts for recruiting.
When to Wear WhatOkey dokey, so now you know how to put together some effective business attire. The next question is, when should you use it? At the early on-campus briefings and presentations, you don't need to wear a suit. Wear a nice shirt and slacks and try not to stand out too much. Later invite only events will often specify what you should wear. If they don't say specifically, make an educated guess based on the type of event, time of day and who you anticipate will be attending. Here are some terms you'll likely encounter:
Casual - this doesn't really mean wear whatever you want. It's a recruiting event so wear slacks and and a nice (clean and pressed) shirt. If it's really hot (and it could be early in the recruiting season), a nice polo shirt should be alright. It depends on the event, of course. If you're playing golf, be dressed for that, etc.
Business Casual - these days, this seems to mean suit and coat, but no tie. In a broader sense, businesses generally think of business casual as slacks and shirt, and possibly even polo shirt, but for recruiting events, business casual really doesn't mean polo shirt.
Business Formal - Generally you'll get this for sit-down dinner type events. This means suit and tie. It's really important to look business-like when this is specified, so don't get cute.
Business Attire - Kind of between business casual and business formal. I'd just go with suit and tie in most cases. If the event is in the afternoon or in a very casual setting, I might go without the tie.
Any events at the firm's offices - wear a suit and tie. This applies even if you're invited there for lunch, or if you're just doing informational interviews.
What about firms that are casual? - You should always, at minimum, wear slacks and a pressed shirt (or polo shirt if it's really hot). It doesn't matter if you're interviewing with Apple and Steve Jobs doesn't wear socks. That doesn't mean you should go without socks. I was reviewing for an interview I have with Google - their website specifically says that while their dress is casual, people interviewing should wear business attire. Once you become CEO, you can wear your underwear outside your pants if you want. Until then, keep it basic and tidy.
Alright, that's about it for what to wear. I know I'm forgetting some stuff, so I'll add it as it comes to me. Everyone should add their input as well. Remember, we're talking about recruiting and schmoozing, so it really doesn't matter how you, as an individual, likes to dress for your job. Remember rule #1.
Next up, I think we'll cover etiquette, manners and respecting your classmates.
So, as I see it, this is probably the most important aspect to successful recruiting. Etiquette includes not just manners when you sit down at dinner, but also how you act at company presentations, how you behave at events, and perhaps most importantly how you interact with fellow students. So, let's try to look at each step of the recruiting process.
Your first encounter with firms that recruit on campus will probably be at a company briefing or presentation. (note: I met some students from Fuqua and they had their Week on Wall Street at the start of recruiting season before any briefings, while we had our Week on Wall Street as the last event of recruiting season). Early on in the recruiting season, many events will be overflowing with students. The first recruiter on campus this last fall was Lehman Brothers, and I'd say about 150 people (about 1/2 our class) attended; later in the fall, there were 50-70 people that were really interested in banking. Someone from Wharton told me they had 4-500 people at some IB briefings.
The key thing to remember at this early stage is to not do anything that gets you thrown off the list. Firms usually brought lots of people for networking after the general presentation, and a lot of students felt the inclination to charge up after the presentation and pepper the representatives with questions. I'll just say that I don't think there is anything that you can possibly do at this stage to help you. Students that were really aggressive only succeeded in hurting themselves. My strategy was generally to hang back, have a drink or something to eat while people rushed up and surrounded the firm representatives, and then after the crowd started to thin I approached 1 or 2 people I thought I could connect with and tried to have a few words with them. Trying to talk to every single firm representative probably isn't a good strategy.
I'd always try to follow up with a thank you email that would help them remember me. This is a two step process. First, you need to say something during the original conversation that they might remember. Second, you need to reference that in your email. But you need to do it all without coming across as being too pushy or aggressive. So, try to find some things in your background that are hooks that will help people remember you. So for me, I was a lawyer working in real estate and CMBS, I was an entrepreneur working with factories in China and I collect wine. I tried to speak with representatives that had similar backgrounds, and most of all I didn't offer up any information until prompted. Again, don't be pushy. After the event, send an email thanking the people that you spoke with. Many times firms will provide a list of people attending an event; otherwise try to get a business card from the people that you spoke with. Don't rush back to your computer/blackberry and shoot of emails. I actually had a chuckle with a banker who was laughing about a thank you email that hit his blackberry 30 minutes after a conversation. Wait until the next day, after they have had a chance to get back to their offices.
Now might be a good time to talk about interacting with fellow students. Nobody likes pushy classmates at recruiting events. People with sharp elbows definitely didn't do well during recruiting. People that shoved their way into groups and tried to take over conversations were not invited to subsequent events. Firms absolutely definitely notice when people are too pushy, and they don't like it. I have many many examples of people who are plenty smart but just didn't have any self-awareness and ended up making no closed lists. I suggest supporting your fellow classmates, introducing them recruiters if you are able, and complimenting them if you are able. The dynamic will vary at each school, so you'll each have to judge for yourselves. Darden tends to be very collaborative, and those students that displayed teamwork during recruiting did the best; and those students that were most selfish did the worst. I found that recruiters really responded positively when I told them I had a great learning team and that I really gained a lot from working with them; and they were visibly turned off by people who were know-it-alls and discounted their classmates.
Also keep in mind that firms are always watching. When you are moving between groups or just taking a break at an event, don't stand off in the corner by yourself. Even if they don't note this overtly, they will start to notice as they get to know you. Try to engage other students while you grab a drink or some food. Firms will also notice is your fellow students drop their heads in annoyance as you approach - yet another reason to make nice with your fellow classmates.
After the initial presentation, many firms will host some open invite events for all students - usually for cocktails or something like that. There are some basic suggestions for these types of events. Hold your drink in your left hand; that way your right hand won't be wet and icy cold when you need to shake hands. Dress appropriately for each event. Refer back to part 2 for details, but the basic thing to remember is that you should never be remembered for what you wore. So, don't be the only one in jeans, but also don't be the only one in a suit, and definitely don't be flashy. Watch your breath - it's pretty basic but I got a tip from a 2Y to always carry some mints or gum just in case. Don't drink too much, obviously. It's definitely a good idea to have a few memorable conversations with firm representatives at this point, because they are about to start cutting. A little self effacing humor is a great tool. Tooting your own horn too much is not.
At this point, if firms return, they will start doing invite-only events. Some firms do just one invite only event while others will do 3-4. It may be cocktails, but more likely it will be dinner. We also had things like golf and wine-tastings. My best suggestion is to start working on dinner etiquette skills as soon as you can so you are comfortable when the situation arises. If you are uncomfortable and thinking about how to eat and drink, you definitely won't be at your social best - so practice. Eat with your mouth shut; this should really go unsaid, but it seems to be tremendously challenging for some people. Practice, now, every day. Your bread plate is on your left, your water is on your right. BMW (bread, meal, water from left to right) is a good way to remember. Don't be the guy that uses the wrong plate or drinks from the wrong glass and makes everyone have to pass stuff around the table; that sucks. If you get butter for your bread, use your knife and take some butter and put it on your own plate. Do not butter your entire roll all at once. Tear off a bite-sized piece of bread, butter that from the butter already on your plate, and eat. After you have used a utensil, do not put it back on the table. After you use your butter knife, put it on your plate. Don't plank your knife (lean it on the plate onto the table), or any utensils for that matter; place the whole thing on the edge of your plate. When you use your utensils, start from the outside in; the if the restaurant is any good they will take away utensils you don't need, and add ones you do as you proceed through your meal. In the US, you should hold your fork in your left hand and cut with the knife in your right hand, then switch your fork to your right hand to deliver food to your mouth. Generally, you don't want to 'point-and-shoot' by keeping the fork in your left hand to deliver food to your mouth. Only cut with your knife, no matter how soft the food is. Don't use your fork to cut any food, even if it is fish or anything like that, use your knife. Cut off a single bit at a time. Do not cut up your entire meal all at once. I'd also recommend taking really small bites when you are at recruiting dinner because you want to be able to respond to questions without choking on your food. Try to order as many courses as everyone else is ordering. You don't want to be the only one to order an appetizer while everyone else watches you eat; but you also don't want to be the only one that doesn't have soup while everyone else is eating. It may be obvious, but don't order the most expensive thing on the menu, and don't order anything that is market price. Unless you are at a rib joint, don't order ribs or anything you have to eat with your hands. Unless you are very comfortable at the table, don't order anything with messy sauces (like spaghetti). If you are at a loss, ask your host for a suggestion.
These are just basic tips, but I'd definitely suggest picking up some kind of etiquette manual and getting in plenty of table manners practice before recruiting begins. The people that were most comfortable with this definitely did better during recruiting. So, that's what I can think of for now. It's really a combination of knowing what to do, and also being comfortable in each setting. Don't just read a book though; practice, practice, practice. I'm interested to hear comments from people at other schools and looking at other industries, and I'll try to add stuff as I think of it.
UNQUOTE:
I guess we in India would not have experienced this kind of stuff for recruiting. I guess we get it a bit too easy. ;)
